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Episode Description
You’ve been told to take care of yourself. Set boundaries. Prevent burnout. But what happens when the system you work in pushes back every time you do?
In this episode of Coffee with Ashley C. and Morgen V., therapists Ashley Charbonneau and Morgen Villegas share their highs and lows from the week. Ashley talks about finally becoming the family black sheep, and the strange freedom that comes with gray rocking. Morgen shares a surprising family reconnection she credits to her own IFS work. She also explains the card deck she uses each night to have hard talks with her son about patriarchy, body image, and friendship.
They also look at how the news cycle weighs on your nervous system, and how to become an informed voter without getting stuck in an echo chamber. Ashley walks through what’s actually on a Colorado ballot, from amendments to judicial retention. She also explains why funding a fire department can mean a two-minute response time instead of 15 minutes.
Then they get to the weekly thumbs up, thumbs down, and middle finger: certification red tape, a payment system that undervalues therapists, and calling it self-care when the real problem is the system.
Grab your coffee and listen in. If this one hits home, follow, like, and share it with a therapist friend who needs it.
Transcript
Welcome and Weekly Check In
Morgen V.: Okay. Welcome back to Coffee with Ashley C and Morgen V. Thank you, Ashley, for that name. It just feels like it's so perfect. We're so glad to be with you today. We hope you enjoyed our last episode, and we're just gonna check in about the things we did last time, which is a high and a low professionally and personally, and then just naming out our thumbs up, thumbs down, and middle finger for the week around mental health.
So Ashley, I know that you came super prepared 'cause you're just awesome like that. You wanna start us off?
Ashley’s Highs and Lows
Ashley C.: Yeah, my high of the week, or my win of the week, I guess personal but also very social work-y. I volunteer with Team Hoyt Denver. A lot of people have heard of the Hoyt Foundation, and that was a father-son duo who started a foundation after they did a number of marathons and Ironmans together.
He and his dad found a way to race together, and there's a local chapter here in Denver. And one of our athletes finished the Boulderron Marathon two Sundays ago, and his really long-term best friend helped push him, and there were a bunch of other runners who also helped push. And then this past Sunday, another athlete and her mom finished the Chicago Marathon, the wheelchair duo.
Training for a marathon is very stressful, but just good and joyful, and watching people finish is just awesome. I'm in awe of some of these athletes. I was not at either race, but watching from afar has been beautiful. Low of the week is family stuff. Don't really need to get into details, but being the black sheep, like kinda once and for all, is an experience.
And like the flip side is a lot of freedom and relief and cutting tentacles. And I do a lot of gray rocking, which means being boring to people who try to provoke. And I guess the part of this is thank you to my past self for doing the work and being ready for- Just some really difficult decisions around what no longer serves us, and what do you do when that's family.
Morgen V.: Wow.
Ashley C.: Very painful, but work of a lifetime, I would say.
Morgen V.: It's almost like you're saying those past parts of you got you to where you are today, and wow. That's yet another incredible kind of experience just in one week, okay? So we're, there's things that happened in one week that took a lifetime to get to, but my point is just from last week to this week, there's just so many things being released, things being invited in, tentacles being cut.
It's incredible. So I appreciate you naming that and being open to sharing about family stuff. Okay. Yeah.
Ashley C.: Spotlight on-
Morgen V.: My turn. Oh, my gosh ...
Ashley C.: Morgen.
Morgen V.: This is, this is my growth, this is my growth edge. I'm like, I don't wanna talk about myself. I'll talk about you all day. I'll talk about anyone.
Ashley C.: You don't have to talk about yourself.
You can talk about a high of the world, or a low of the world.
Morgen V.: Yeah. Let me just think.
Let's
Morgen’s Highs and Lows
Morgen V.: see. So a high of the week would be I went to Estes Park over the weekend and did look at the fall colors, and just the beautiful changing of scenery and celebrating my older son's birthday, and it was so much fun.
And we, we also went with family where there's been some unexpected reconciliation that's occurred, and so that's been- Wow ... quite shocking, actually. And yeah, but I really do attribute a lot of that reconnection to, honestly, the personal IFS work that I've done. That's not to say there's a miracle cure, 'cause this is just one pocket of my family.
I will just put that caveat there. This is not my entire family. But it does seem to help a lot, and I also have become way more assertive in asking for what I need, and not sitting back and just accepting things that don't serve and that are not healthy. That's been really cool to witness that in myself, in that growth.
Ashley C.: I'm so proud of you.
Morgen V.: Thank you.
Ashley C.: And inspired by you, too.
Morgen V.: Thank you. We can be just mutually inspired, right? We both are doing the thing that maybe our past selves were like, "Wow, I don't know what this is gonna look like," but now maybe just even in this moment can perceive and be with. Whoo. Just got some- Whoo
goosebumps there.
Ashley C.: You also ate some chicharrones.
Morgen V.: I didn't. My husband did. It's like a thing. He just needs this high protein chicharron in the morning on the way to a trip. And so yeah, it got us behind, and my kids were so stressed that we were gonna miss this activity. Anyway, it's a whole thing. Anyway, we made it on time, but for us, on time is being early, and we were only like five or 10 minutes early.
Yes. Thank you for
remembering- So not to sound-
Ashley C.: Plan in a chicharrones buffer.
Morgen V.: That's right. That's true. Yes, that is
Politics, Parenting, and Hard Talks
Morgen V.: correct. And then let's see, a low, the continued despair and sadness I feel around- Political situation in our country, and just the ways that manifests into the heaviness around that. Which we might get into, I don't know.
We'll see what comes up with our political commentary today. Yeah. But yeah, I do carry a lot of that, and notice and feel the impact personally, professionally. I do try to do things either in a micro or a macro way the best I can.
It's so hard, though. It is hard to stay informed and educated without being inundated with certain commentary or feeling polarized or feeling angry or ready to act.
Right. I think even when we're ready to act, that is still our nervous system being completely activated, right? And so even if there's excitement or inspiration or activism, it's still our nervous system being activated.
And also the consistent kind of nagging inside of my head of I'm never gonna do enough for it.
Ashley C.: Yeah.
Morgen V.: Whether it's the micro or the macro contribution, like how could I ever even have an impact? That same commentary-
Ashley C.: And then worrying about that ... goes through my head, like- Yeah ... at least 20 times a day.
Morgen V.: Yeah. Yeah, I appreciate you saying that. So it's almost like, yeah, maybe we're, we're going on a tangent already, and that's okay 'cause I think we're already trending in that direction.
But it's almost like reminding myself of what I actually do. And so just thinking about that, just as an example from last week, just thinking about the way that boys and men are impacted by patriarchy in our society, and on a micro level, really teaching my boys about that. And that means having really hard conversations, and I started using this card deck.
Every night, my son and I are gonna be just talking about a hard conversation. What does this mean? What do you think about this idea? It's more of a formalized conversation.
Ashley C.: I love that, and I can imagine pulling a card or implementing a routine like that can be difficult upfront, but then in a month from now, and six months from now, and a year from now, that routine can put your kiddo on a really solid trajectory.
Morgen V.: Yes, you're right. The routine, I think, that will set in motion some preliminary conversations that will lead to harder conversations in the future. I just feel like there's so many different things that I would like to talk with him about, and I'm talking about body image. I'm talking about societal norms.
I'm talking about friendship, bullying, et cetera.
Ashley C.: Relationship.
Morgen V.: Relationships. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
Ashley C.: It's so much more than consent or sex ed.
Morgen V.: Oh, absolutely. 100%.
Ashley C.: Go, Morgen.
Morgen V.: Go, me. Go, you.
Voting Guide and Ballot Breakdown
Ashley C.: I was wondering if maybe we wanna talk about voting- Yeah ... and elections coming up. We live in a, a mail-in ballot state. I have actually never voted in person, and listeners, feel free to judge me all you want.
So I've always mailed in my ballot. Me too. We're privileged that way, I would say, in a lot of ways. Colorado voting access is a lot different than in other states. So I filled out my ballot over the weekend, and it actually took me several days to- Open it, read it through, figure out what I didn't know, which was honestly like 80% of the ballot.
I'm like, all I know is governor, secretary of state, and there was one other thing, and obviously I'm forgetting it right now. And the rest of the ballot, I was like, I don't even know what this says. And so I just wanted to have a really open conversation about that because it's a lot harder to vote, not just in terms of access, especially for certain populations, but in terms of what am I actually doing?
And what am I actually saying yes or no to? And so Morgen, I'm wondering if you can speak to that a little bit, and then I'd love to walk through just some steps in case people need somewhere to start.
Morgen V.: Yeah, I love that. I was just looking at my ballot this morning thinking I should do that really soon.
That would be maybe my first thought would be trying to get it done as soon as you get it because you want to make sure that you have time t- for it to arrive at the facility to be counted correctly. You can also check online to make sure that it was received from the ballot box. And then just in terms of, I guess, the whole process of it, what I do, which this precedes ChatGPT, which I will not be consulting ChatGPT for any decision about ballot issues because I've been reading articles about how it will feed into biases and so that also is like- Oh, wow.
Okay ... maybe something to think about. Yeah. It becomes an echo chamber, right? Yeah. So it's like, if we really want to think critically and continue to think about how issues impact us, I think something that I will do is actually read the book that comes with my ballot. I'm, the name of the book is escaping me right now, but it's, I don't know, it's so long.
Yeah. So it's analog, right? We're gonna actually read a book. So I haven't, I haven't voted quite yet, but I'm curious, like if there's other resources and tools that you use. I try to think critically and consult even with my peers about what do they think about specific issues and things like that. Yeah.
Yeah. I don't want to just vote. I want to be an informed voter.
Ashley C.: I agree with you 100%, and I want to zoom out a little bit, and I, I have only voted in Colorado. So I don't, I don't know what it looks like in other states. But in Colorado, there's a couple different things we're voting on right now.
One, candidates, right? So a person running for office. Two, amendments, so those are proposed changes to our state constitution. Three are propositions, usually shortened to prop, and then the number of the proposition, and that is different than the state constitution, but it's some sort of change to law or policy.
And then we have local ballot measures, so city level, county level, school boards. And then on our ballot there was, I want to say like 10 if I had to guess right now without looking at it, like judicial retention questions. So should a judge remain in office? And I Google everything knowing that sometimes what is on Google may or may not be 100% accurate or depending on the website that shows up at the top of your search might be biased one way or the other.
I also look at Planned Parenthood of the Rocky Mountains and Cobalt and other much smaller nonprofit organizations. Sometimes they put out information about certain ballot measures that can be helpful in terms of the critical thinking piece. And Yeah. I really try to evaluate beyond political affiliation, and that in and of itself can be very time-consuming, I would say.
And I wanna honor that a lot of people might not have time in their day or even access to do the research that you and I are talking about. And I think everyone deserves to know what is misinformation, and unfortunately that's on us as the Googlers to be able to spot what is misinformation. So I guess if I had to distill it down, if there's a nonprofit or a candidate or a group that you are very passionate about or very involved with, that's a great place to start in terms of talking to people or looking on a group's website to see what they're endorsing and why.
And I think with the judges, I think technically they're all nonpartisan, right? And so that research is a little more difficult, but a lot of courts are open and g- go sit in on a hearing if that's available to you, and see how a judge talks. See how they talk to both sides, right? The-- If we're talking criminal court, district attorney and defense attorney, victim and offender, how are they referring to people?
Morgen V.: Yeah. You could look at kind of the history of some of the decisions, and if there's been that-- some that are really controversial that you don't agree with.
Ashley C.: In our state, we're looking at county judges, but also state supreme court. I think there were-- And several court of appeals, and the court of appeals judges are making law, changing law, or reasserting current law that h- has huge impacts.
So every level is important, but I just wanna name that. And then Morgen, what would you flag for people either in our state or-
Morgen V.: With judges, just I think, I'm pretty sure there's no term limit. There's an age limit, and so that's just something to know. I think some people might have some feelings about that, like- Yeah
how long should a judge actually be a judge? But anyway, I do t- I do think each decision, again, I try to think about it intentionally. But you're naming-- You're asking what, what ballot issue might we want to highlight. Proposition 134, which will have an impact around transgender athletes participating in sports.
Proposition 135. This is an extremely important issue to me, so I will be looking for that very closely to make sure to vote no on that. I absolutely believe that people should not be legislating against other people's bodies. That one seems pretty clear to me. That's in line with social work values.
Self-determination of each individual, inherent worth and value of everyone. Was there any that you also felt stuck with, or any that felt really clear, like yes, hell yes, or hell no?
Ashley C.: We had one to ask whether we agree with increasing taxes for one of the fire departments. Oh. I am a yes, and my spouse has educated me about this, and this is more of a dire example, but if fire departments are not fully funded, they start closing stations.
And if they start closing stations, you or your loved one who needs life-saving care, that is the difference between life and death. That is the difference between a two-minute response time and a 15-minute response time. And CPR, especially within that timeframe, is, can be life-saving. A- among another, other, like, serious injuries, right?
Or cardiac events or health-affecting events. And I think people read those questions and they're like, "I don't wanna raise taxes. I don't wanna be taxed more." And I get that. Life is expensive, so even just a couple cents here and there, or a couple dollars here and there, that is the difference for some people between financial stability and not.
And I acknowledge that, and this is one of those questions on a ballot where you don't need 911 until you need 911, and then you realize real quickly what a difference it makes if firefighters can get to you in under two to five minutes versus potentially 15 to 20 minutes.
Morgen V.: The first thought that I had is, how are, is this something that we're voting on?
Isn't every person... Doesn't every person have the right to access medical care in the swiftest way possible? And how is this even a question of whether or not we should fund that? Of course, we should fund that. But the way that we're, like, trending toward becoming more of a billionaire-centric society, only people that have money has inherent worth and dignity.
And even people who don't have money believe this, and it's just, it just boggles my mind to vote against having quick access to emergency care.
Ashley C.: Please vote. Please- Yes,
Morgen V.: please vote ...
Ashley C.: please vote.
Morgen V.: Yes.
Mental Health Thumbs and Wrap Up
Ashley C.: Thumbs up, thumbs down, middle finger. Thumbs down to right now because I submitted my application to be certified and not just trained, and I'm giving up because I have given them everything that they need, and they keep coming at me saying, "This isn't the certificate that you need, and you need this, and this isn't an approved trainer," even though they are.
And I'm just like, "Why does it have to be so hard?" I am literally getting my PhD, and I follow applications to a T, and there's a fucking barrier, and I'm over it
Morgen V.: But that's so frustrating.
I'm so sorry that's happening. Can we talk offline about that?
Ashley C.: Yes, we can.
Morgen V.: Thumbs down always to our entire payment system because it consistently creates this devaluing of who we are as professionals.
Ashley C.: Permanent thumbs down every week.
Morgen V.: Yeah, permanent thumbs down. This is every week. It's just like a new situation, a new, like, shocking issue.
Ashley C.: Yeah, my middle finger is stop calling it self-care when the system is the problem. I feel like at the graduate school level, pre-license level, supervision level, independent licensure level, consultation level, training level, we talk about preventing burnout while everyone normalizes overwork, inadequate compensation, not me right now, but impossible caseloads, like I've been there.
And frankly, the expectation that we should sacrifice our own wellbeing for everyone else, whether that's a specific client or the field more generally. And when we set boundaries, like systems tell us to go fuck ourselves, and I hate that.
Morgen V.: I concur. I will just have always the same middle finger every week, so I'm, I might need to bring in a new one next time we meet.
Okay.
Ashley C.: So write that down. To do, identify different middle fingers to the mental health field.
Morgen V.: Middle finger to the entire AI system that we still don't understand and no one's really being transparent about.
Ashley C.: Thumbs up. I had an awesome supervision group in the last week, and everyone is from different parts of the field, works with different populations, different levels of care, and it is just so awesome to see people supporting one another, cheering each other on, problem solving.
"Have you thought about this?" Being creative, especially when a lot of us are feeling more and more restricted in where we can coordinate care with our clients and our clients not having access to other care that can be life-saving or needed to support overall wellness. And I just love the creativity specifically that comes out of some of my supervision groups.
Morgen V.: I think thumbs up to a lot of the people in our field right now that are standing up to power and are not taking the shit that's coming in through our political system. One other thumbs up is watching consultees understand and notice their own specialization and what they offer to the field and how they can work with other clinicians to develop their identity as therapists.
Ashley C.: Thanks for hanging with us. Hope you enjoyed a coffee while you heard Ashley Z and Morgen V just discuss life over the last week. And give us a follow, give us a like, share this podcast with someone who might benefit from listening to it, and we will see you next time
