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Episode Description
Would you do a therapy session from the driver’s seat? Ashley has heard of therapists doing exactly that. And it’s not the only ethics gap she’s seeing in pre-licensed clinicians.
In this coffee chat episode, hosts Ashley Charbonneau and Morgen Villegas share their highs and lows of the week. They also give out their thumbs up, thumbs down, and middle fingers for the mental health field. They talk about why basics like informed consent, a private space, and being fully present in session still aren’t being taught. They cheer the growing awareness of perimenopause, menopause, and PMDD in mental health care, and call out how slowly academia changes. Ashley shares how one hockey rivalry brings out a side of her she doesn’t like. Morgen helps her trace it back to a deep need for fairness. They also push back, hard, on blaming mental illness for school shootings.
Grab your coffee (or sparkling apple cider). This one is real, a little raw, and a reminder that therapy has always been political.
Transcript
Coffee Chat Kickoff
Morgen V.: Welcome back to The Art of Being a Therapist. We are your hosts, Morgen V. and Ashley C. We are gonna have just a chat today. Hopefully you can get a cup of coffee, cup of tea, whatever feels right. And we're just gonna go over our high and low of the week. We're gonna share with you what we're giving a thumbs up to, what we're giving a thumbs down to, what we're giving a middle finger to, to the mental health field this week.
Get that drink ready, and we are gonna just dive into this discussion today. Today we're much more prepared, including me, which my homework was what am I giving a middle finger to, so-
Ashley C.: Aside from insurance companies. Which is an ongoing middle finger.
Morgen V.: Correct. So I will pull up my notes while you start us off.
Ashley C.: I have a fun fact to share before we jump in. One of my favorite drinks is sparkling apple cider, and it has always been that way. So when I was younger, my mom would take me and my brother to Noah's Bagel Shop or Mayor's Bakery before school sometimes, and I would always get either a donut or a bagel with cream cheese, and one of those mini Martinelli's Sparkling Apple Ciders.
Yeah, the cute little round ones. And then fast forward to adulthood, I don't drink alcohol anymore, but I love sparkling apple cider to the point where I will drink a whole bottle. That is my... I don't really like chocolate. I don't really like ice cream or sweets, but that is my toxic trait. I love that.
Morgen V.: That's the original mocktail, honestly.
Ashley C.: So that's usually what I would do on New Year's is just get a Martinelli's- Mm-hmm ... and then it would almost be like, I'll just cheers with this. Now there's way more fancy stuff, but I love that. That little round jug with the little tiny glass handle- Yes. Yes ... and you can use it as a vase after.
Morgen V.: Yep. So freaking cute.
Ashley C.: So I have my sparkling apple cider right now.
Morgen V.: Obsessed. I actually have an iced tea today too, so that's cool.
Ashley C.: Nice.
Morgen V.: All right. Should we get started?
Ashley C.: Yes, after I took us down that tangent. Those are the best. Okay.
Highs of the Week
Ashley C.: I have three professional highs of the week.
Morgen V.: Whoa.
Ashley C.: I know.
Morgen V.: I'm here for that. But this is what it's about, right? I need to hear this right now. I am, I need this. I wonder if our listeners do too.
Ashley C.: Okay, first one. I use the power and privilege wheel in group therapy sessions. So on the outside of the wheel is, the one I use, is the marginalized category within a category, and then towards the middle is the privileged category within a category.
So for example, if we're talking about race, the privileged category would be white, and then we go out from there. If we're talking about gender, male is at the middle, and then we go out from there. So I presented this wheel. I had some drawings on the whiteboard And I just asked the question, "What stands out, what is surprising to you about this wheel, and what is not surprising to you about this wheel?"
And it's a group of all men, and every single person said, "I'm not surprised about the man." And I was like, "Oh, yes. Yes." Because sometimes men are surprised when we're like, "Hello, you're at the top of the food chain." And then several of the clients wanted to do a deep dive around some of the categories, and so that was my whole group, and it was awesome.
And then their homework was to talk about something to do with this wheel with someone else in their life. So I'm curious what that's gonna look like. So that was my first high. Okay. My second professional high was I was the guest speaker for a substance use class at the University of Denver on Thursday, and it was a class for the master's in forensic psychology program.
And just, I didn't really have much prepared And the regular professor did. I intentionally didn't wanna prepare because I didn't wanna take over, and I just wanted to let things flow naturally, which has historically been a big challenge for me because I like control. And it was an awesome class, and I loved it.
I had so much fun. I felt confident. It was funny. There were laughs. There were very serious questions. And it was just such a great reminder that there are students and pre-licensed clinicians out there who genuinely love to learn and who are ready and wanting to do this work and come into this field.
So, that was really exciting. And then my third professional high was seeing you on Wednesday. And I'm so excited. You can tell because I sang it.
Morgen V.: Last week, you mean- Yeah ... when we were on social media?
Ashley C.: Yes.
Morgen V.: That was amazing. That was so fun. Yeah. It's just so great to just be silly. Highly recommend if you have a colleague that you can do some reels with or just get together and do some projects with that are not specifically related to one-on-one therapy.
Ashley C.: Thank you for sharing those. That's so cool. It's like there's so much personal growth, professional growth there.
Morgen V.: Yeah, anything else you wanna share about those?
Ashley C.: No.
Morgen V.: Okay. Professional high would be just continuing to see the trajectory of and growth of the consultees that I work with. I work with some that are doing their consultant and training for EMDRIA, and working with them on identifying and naming what their style is as a consultant, how they wanna teach EMDR to newer clinicians, and how they wanna incorporate IFS into that.
And so it's been really cool to watch that. And so not only am I supporting folks in understanding their clients more, but also their own internal experience of their client work because I do IFS-informed consultation. So that's been really awesome. I feel always- That's so cool ... really, really inspired by that.
I'm actually shifting my practice to be more consultee focused than client focused, and that has felt like a really great pivot, honestly. And then a personal high was my kids' conferences were last week, and the teachers reported that they're both very socially aware and emotionally intelligent, which I was like, "Oh my gosh." Oh my gosh. Yay.
Oh, one of my other highs, of course, was doing social media last week.
Ashley C.: What?
Morgen V.: That was awesome. You'll see some more on our Insta page if y'all wanna follow us, The Art of Being a Therapist or Social Work with Ashley or Morgen Villegas Therapist.
Lows and Ethics Gaps
Morgen V.: My low is, once again, reflective of our society, just more about school shootings, the one in Bend, Oregon specifically.
Oh. Just really feeling, like, so much collective grief, individual grief as well, and I'm just over it. I just wanna send thoughts and prayers for some gun control now. Right now. Right now.
Ashley C.: I spent a lot of my childhood in Bend, and all school shootings are bad. All school shootings are traumatic. All school shootings are preventable.
All school shootings need to result in stricter laws around weapons. And you see your hometown, and you're like, "Fuck." There's just an added anger, grief, sadness, betrayal, F you. And my best friend works in the school district just north of that, and I'm just like, God.
Yeah, that, that was a huge low for me as well.
Another professional low for me was some themes around pre-licensed therapists not knowing some basic ethical stuff, and I've seen the same themes over and over now that I think there's a huge gap in education and supervision. But, and this is one of the biggest themes of our podcast, I'm just like, "Why are we not teaching this?"
So that was a low.
Morgen V.: I'm curious, which ethical dilemmas are you coming up against with supervisees where you're like, how was this not brought in or scaffolded or at least named?
Um- Like, a theme that you're seeing.
Ashley C.: No, I think a theme I'm seeing is conflict of interest related in terms of- Like dual relationship?
Not between therapist and client, and we talked about this with our LMFTs who've been on the podcast. But if you're seeing a couple and one of the individuals, or if you're seeing both individuals of a couple that seems to me. And I think there's some people who will not see clients- Before the clients fill out paperwork.
And to me, part of the disclosure statement is making sure the clients have an opportunity to ask questions, and I think that is literally written in my disclosure statement. It says, "I have a, an opportunity to ask questions about this provider's process." So even critical thinking around disclosure, mandatory disclosure statements or consent forms.
And I'm trying to think what other ethical themes. The hour we block off is for clients. It's not for us to be multitasking. And so I've had to have that conversation a lot recently where I'm like, "You need a confidential space that is closed off with a door that is not bothered, and maybe your laptop shouldn't be on your lap the whole session."
Morgen V.: You mean people that are going to therapy and they're seeing their therapist and their therapist is doing something while they're in session?
Ashley C.: Yes.
Morgen V.: They're in their car, you're saying, or they're not focused?
Ashley C.: I have seen that, but not in a long time. I saw that probably 18 months ago.
Morgen V.: They're driving or they're in their car?
Ashley C.: I have had people talk to me about both.
Morgen V.: I think during COVID that might've been acceptable if you needed a private space if you didn't have a home office, but now it's seven years later, so yeah, I would agree. You don't wanna be doing therapy in your car because first of all, you don't have a private Wi-Fi connection there.
Okay, and then you said they're driving and doing a session?
Sigh. Okay, there's... If you're the client, that's also not okay by the way, 'cause you don't want your client to get in a car accident or be distracted. But as a therapist, I just cannot imagine being like, "Oh, I'm here to hold space for you today, but I'm gonna be driving while I do that."
Um- Okay, so then, and then what was the other one that you said that I-- it already just went out of my head. Oh, the disclosure forms you said, and then the couples therapy. Okay, the couples one makes sense. I've honestly not heard the one about disclosure, Ashley, I'm gonna be honest with you.
Ashley C.: I require paperwork to be signed by end of session one because there is a big chunk of session one sometimes that I'm talking about my background, education, training, the work I do.
Morgen V.: Yeah, mandated reporting.
Ashley C.: Yeah, confidentiality. And some clients want to know that much more in depth than what my mandatory disclosure statement says. Yeah. Our clients have to consent to services, which is why, you know-
Morgen V.: Before the end of session one ...
Ashley C.: I have them sign session one. But I think there's this rigidity around, "Nope, if the clients haven't filled out the consent form before session one, I cancel their intake."
Morgen V.: Oh, yeah. No, I don't do that.
Ashley C.: And I'm like, "Ugh." Like-
Morgen V.: Yeah. That feels icky ...
Ashley C.: that's not... Yeah. And then there's conversations around like, "That's my agency policy." And I'm like, "I understand that you have an agency policy, and clients still have the right to ask questions before they sign forms." So true. So that's more nuanced, I would say, than some of the other stuff I've seen.
Yeah.
Morgen V.: Yeah. I can't imagine canceling someone's appointment. I just feel like it's so hard to even get connected and scheduled. Yeah. And so if that's happened, I just say, "Oh, did, was there something that came up?" Same. It's online, and so they can just access it right there on their phone.
Ashley C.: Yep.
Morgen V.: Anyway, wow.
Yeah, there is that rigidity and that, again, corporate mindset- Yep ... of treating people as numbers rather than people. Thank you for bringing that up. I love learning new things about how people do their work. And how maybe I can adapt that to my own. Is it my turn? I can't remember. Okay, I think we're low.
Ashley C.: I have one more low. It's more of a personal one.
Morgen V.: Let's hear it.
Ashley C.: Get to my middle finger later.
Morgen V.: Yeah, let's do it.
Hockey Low - Deep Dive
Ashley C.: So I'm a huge Colorado Avalanche fan, as a hockey fan, and last Wednesday, yeah, so last week, the Dallas Stars came here, and we played them. And that team and their fans bring out the worst in me.
I'm yelling some pretty not nice things to players, and then I'm like, "Oh my God, I'm not a mean person. I shouldn't be saying these things." And I'm not calling them names or anything, but I'm chirping to an extent where I'm like, "This is actually pretty rude. This is not funny." And that team brings out the worst collectively in Avalanche fans.
And so halfway through the first period, I was like, "I wanna go home. I don't like this energy. I don't like who I am when we play this team. I don't like the people around me. I don't like who they are when this team comes to our arena." So yeah, that was a low. And I prepare for it now. I'm like, "Okay, this is gonna be a bad night for Ashley Charbonneau.
I'm not gonna be in a good mood. I'm not gonna be my best self." And I try to prevent that from happening, and I can't. I'm gonna have s- have some more specifics here for a non-hockey fan over here.
Morgen V.: And maybe for our listeners. What are they saying to instigate you into saying the thing? What are they saying, and then what do you, what is coming up in you around that?
Ashley C.: Okay. So the backstory is in 2016, 2017, we had a terrible locker room, and our best pl- one of our best players went to management and was like, "I want a trade. Your team sucks." And we were worst in the league at the time. But you don't do that, right? You don't go to management and say, "I'm better than you.
Trade me." So that player- Has been with the Dallas Stars for almost 10 years now, and it's, every time he comes onto ice, there's just this energy shift, right? And then a couple years ago, we made an offer to re-sign a player. He was like, "Nope, I'm worth more than that." And the fans were like, "I don't know, though.
Are you? I don't know if you're worth more than that." And he said, "F you, I'm leaving." He didn't say F you, but that was the perception, right? "I'm leaving." Went to Carolina, and then went to Dallas, and he is making the same amount that we offered him. And then there's another player that we used to have that plays with him.
There, there's not a lot of drama around in terms of, like, trades or salary or anything. But yeah, I... You know what it taps at for me. It's like, you're not better than us, man, and we're not better than you. We're all humans, and we deserve to get paid what we're worth, and you're not worth more objectively, and you're not...
I don't know. So I just get this, like, charge in me, where I'm like, "You left us, and then we won a cup,"
Morgen V.: i'm just really enjoying the observing of this, this, like, a whole nother aspect of your, of who you are, as, like, this sports fan. And so-
Ashley C.: Only hockey, Morgen.
Morgen V.: Oh, sorry, hockey. My bad. My bad. And it's just so interesting to me, because I'm just not Glennon Doyle calls it the sports.
Ashley C.: Yeah. I'm just not the sports kind of person. The ball. Yeah. The soccer. That's the soccer, the hockey.
Morgen V.: And so I just, I'm just hearing, like, this person that maybe we could say he was a therapist asking for more money, right? And would we say that therapist doesn't deserve more money, right? Mm-hmm. And so anyway, but I hear you as a sport, as the sports fan questioning that, and it's like, it is such a different lens, right?
So anyway, I'm just, yeah, I'm really appreciating you bringing that up, because I just don't, I just, I hear you, right? There's that struggle where it's like, I don't wanna show up like this while I'm in the sport, in the sports arena. Is that what it's called?
Ashley C.: Yep. Yeah. The ice rink arena.
Morgen V.: Yeah. Now I'm, like, mixing up all my quotes from Brene Brown too.
Ashley C.: I love it. I love it.
Morgen V.: But anyway, yeah. So anyway, so there's something happening where you're feeling, like, this indignation around it, and, like, that's showing up while you're at the game.
Ashley C.: I want things to be fair, and I want everyone to be happy, and I know that's not how elite sports or professional sports work.
And, like, this team and their fans, like, really taps at that, like- Negative core belief about myself
Morgen V.: And then also that desire for that justice, right?
Ashley C.: Yeah. And the fairness. Exactly.
Morgen V.: Oh my gosh. Exactly. Obsessed with that. Of course I'm gonna see a deeper meaning here, Ashley, than, than just- You did ... just sports. Anyway. You did. Okay. What else about that?
Ashley C.: Nothing right now. Usually I'm, like, really nice about other teams, and I'm the one being like, "Be nice to them." I will go down deep rabbit holes about players. And there's one who used to play with us, Sammy Girard. Love you. He now plays for Pittsburgh.
But I will always remember his Wikipedia page says his parents couldn't afford for both him and his sibling to be in hockey, and his sibling gave it up. Cale Makar, his younger brother plays for our AHL team, or our affiliate team, Morgen. His name is Taylor. The minor league? Yeah, the minor league. But it's not called that in hockey.
I know. But yes, the minor league.
And every time you hear Taylor Makar's name, it's associated with Cale, and I'm always like, "Taylor's his own person, you guys. Honor Taylor."
Morgen V.: So what you're saying is that you, if you take a wider lens and you start to think about- Yes ... more of the humanity of it, that- Yeah
brings you back into your, I think your embodied self, right? 'Cause perhaps there's a disembodiment happening when you're, like, yelling back and, like, getting in- Yeah. ... involved in that, like, that kind of posturing, so to speak. So I'm actually curious. I wonder if having more of that humane approach to that person that's really getting under your skin.
I can't remember who you said. Actually, you didn't say who it is. But the one that left and that said I was worth more and all the things. Does that player have-
Ashley C.: Shane, if you're out there
Morgen V.: Does that player have a story that would help?
Ashley C.: I don't know. I don't know if that would help. We're talking about a dream that less than 1% of people get to live, right?
I'm, and I'm generalizing, of course. You grow up playing a sport. You excel. You have access to the best of the best in terms of coaches or teams, and then you get recruited either to college or to the professional leagues. And you're right. At some point it becomes a commodity, right? At some point the love or the dream- becomes a job, and becomes part of capitalism.
And at some point, your talent is monetized, and that's what makes me really sad. And they, you're right, they should be paid what they are worth, 100%. And hockey players are notoriously paid way less than football, basketball, and baseball. And so that's a part of me loving this league too, is hockey is really the underdog.
They're the least popular out of all the sports. But I think you're right. At the end of the day, these are humans, and we have no idea what they're going through, and they're objectified all day, every day. I could go on a tangent about how women are objectified more, but these athletes are objectified all day, every day.
I don't know what their contracts say, but I could guess they own nothing. Not their name, not their brand, not their social media handles, probably not even their email addresses, not their bodies, right? Talk about, I know you and I talked about last week, having control over your body. These guys don't have control over their bodies.
They're told to play or not.
Morgen V.: And because of that, the fans feel like they belong to them in some way. Yeah. You belong on my team, on my place where I have allegiance. So anyway, I appreciate you naming this, 'cause I might have just called you out on something. I hope that's okay.
Ashley C.: Good. Call me out, yes.
Morgen V.: Good. 'Cause I think what you were naming anyway was, like, an incongruence that you were feeling of, why am I having this reaction? Mm-hmm. And I don't know if we circled that a little bit.
Ashley C.: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, my apologies to Matt Duchene- And the other players I just referenced. You're not a commodity, you're a human, and you have inherent worth.
Go Avalanche.
Morgen V.: Actually, I'm so sorry. I did not mean for that to come out.
Ashley C.: No, I love it. I love it, I love it. Because, honestly, I love it because usually I'm you telling my spouse at games, "This is a human. They have inherent worth. I don't care if they miss this goal." So usually I'm in your shoes, except this one game, every single time it comes around, and I'm the asshole fan.
You know what? It's, it's just a, it's like a microcosm. I think that you do things very consciously. I don't think you're going in there and you're like, you're saying, "I wanna leave," right? Yeah. 'Cause it doesn't feel congruent to your spirit and your soul and the essence of who you are, right? But it's, again, it's like a microcosmic example of how patriarchy affects all of us.
Morgen V.: Yes. Even the most conscious and aware and people who are doing, quote-unquote, "the work" all the time, right? We still need to have experiences like right now of just naming things and then being like, "Oh, that's what's happening." So- Absolutely.
Anyway.
Ashley C.: Absolutely.
Morgen V.: Okay.
Ashley C.: Did you say everything you wanted to say about your highs and lows?
Morgen V.: Yes, I did. Okay. Thank you. Yeah.
Thumbs Up, Thumbs Down, Middle Finger
Morgen V.: We're just gonna talk about pretty much everything today. Geez. Yeah. So my thumbs up, my thumbs up in our field right now is I am just seeing more and more offerings in the EMDR community, in the IFS community, and then in just kind of general trainings around the increase in understanding of how perimenopause and menopause and hormones are a huge factor in mental health, where there is just an increased understanding of the need to either rule out or rule in different physiological components of mental health, that it's not just that, I'm just gonna speak for people with uteruses, right?
It's not just that there's a mood shift or just frequent irritability or anger. There could be some legitimate endocrinological reason ... Is that how you say it?
Ashley C.: I think so, yes.
Morgen V.: For the, for these experiences. And so I think there's just been a lot more understanding and spotlighting on misdiagnosis of mental illness are actually tied back to perimenopause and/or menopause.
Ashley C.: That's my thumbs up. Love your thumbs up. And I have a uterus and didn't know until recently what a, quote-unquote, "normal" cycle is in terms of estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, like all those sex hormones. There's supposed to be an ebb and flow that is cyclical. And in perimenopause, there is no cyclical nature of those hormones.
You literally see random spikes, and I appreciate you naming this because it just goes to show I've been a therapist for over 10 years. I've been a female for over 35 years, and I still have a lot more education to do so that I can better serve my clients around this.
Morgen V.: 100%. I barely scratched the surface on my own knowledge of this.
I just usually will recommend to clinicians or even my clients, just refer them back to someone, a provider who is trained in menopause treatment or perimenopause. Usually you can look it up. There's, it's called The Menopause Society, and that is kind of the specific training that's out there right now.
It's only been about five years that the spotlight has really shown on this aspect of our health. I think it's, yeah, I think it's a great change that, that it, that's occurring as we're both experiencing it.
Ashley C.: Yeah. So how lucky are we? I know, right? My thumbs up is students want to learn. Oh my gosh. And professors are coming up with super cool class ideas.
So the class I guest spoke at last week was a three-hour substance use class. And then a one-hour lab, and it was really freaking cool. It's the first time I've heard anyone doing a lab to do with substance use therapy. First of its kind at DU. Super, super cool idea, very well executed.
Morgen V.: Cool. That's such a great one.
May we continue to innovate, right? We were just talking about the ethics. Maybe we do need to do an ethics lab. Yes. Um- Let's do it ... some kind of hands-on learning.
Okay, thumbs down, basically related to my thumbs up. Just how many people still don't know about hormonal impact or PMDD or, so premenstrual dysphoric disorder.
So just basically related to my thumbs up. There's a huge shift in our field among a lot of people, but there's still a lot of, a lot of folks who have a lot to learn and maybe still don't recognize perimenopause and menopause impact. So yeah, that's my thumbs down.
Ashley C.: My thumbs down is also related to my thumbs up, just like you.
My thumbs down is academia is slow. I'm not a professor anymore, but professors have to advocate so hard for any curriculum changes or any new class to be taken seriously, and I-- The, the bigger thumbs down is I don't think a lot of classes are meeting students' needs.
Morgen V.: There's many innovators, wonderful professors, many people that want to implement change, but somehow there's a systemic issue that prevents that from occurring.
Middle finger. This is gonna go back to my low of the week. So is mine. Just still blaming mental health on school shootings. Ugh. So again, specifically naming the one in Bend from last week. It's like, no. No. No. Folks who live with mental health struggles or mental health disorders are more likely to be victims or victimized by gun violence than be a perpetrator of gun violence, and I am so sick of having everything be on mental health professionals for us to solve this and all the things.
And it's, yeah, I have another way to solve it. It's not gonna happen in a one-on-one therapy session. It's gonna happen advocating. It's gonna happen on more of a macro level by getting gun control. Okay? Yes. I know I'm a broken record today.
Ashley C.: I will say that every day for the rest of my life. And hopefully we don't have to because if we don't, it means there's systemic reform.
Okay, my middle finger is to systems normalizing abuse. Back to the NHL, National Hockey League. Fuck you for allowing sexual abusers to play hockey, especially if they are banned from their national team. And also, the victim of the crime I am talking about, go you and your strength and your self-advocacy.
I hope you're well. I hope you're healing. And I really think we've seen lately that mental health intersects with all of these other systems, including systems we as a society view as sport or entertainment, and it's gross.
Morgen V.: Do you wanna name anything else about that for the folks that maybe don't follow that?
Ashley C.: Yeah, so several years ago, there was a pretty horrific, with multiple players on the Canadian national team as perpetrators of that offense. And the Canadian league, like the overarching league, found them guilty in some way, shape, or form. I don't know the civil and criminal legal systems in that country, but they were banned from a certain league for X amount of years.
But they are eligible to play in other leagues, including the NHL. And so I believe four of the five players who were consequenced, I'll put consequenced in quotes- In Canada ... five players are on NHL teams and play.
Morgen V.: Yeah. Just makes me sick.
Ashley C.: Yeah. And if you- Yeah ... have you watched Heated Rivalry?
Morgen V.: Yeah.
Ashley C.: So the director, Jacob Tierney, was interviewed I think on a podcast last week, and someone was like, "Aren't you so excited that the NHL is more and more open-minded?"
And he basically clapped back and was like, "Are you serious? There's rapists playing in this league, so no, nothing has changed." And I was like all fired up. Like open-minded
Morgen V.: about what?
Ashley C.: Yeah, like, "Don't you think the NHL has grown and is more inclusive and da, da, da?" And Jacob Tierney's response was basically highlighting, like you're not inclusive if you allow abusers in your community.
Morgen V.: So-
Ashley C.: On that note... On that note, thank you to our listeners. Thanks for hanging out with us. I think we went on a couple tangents, mostly me, but this is the work. This is real life of a therapist, and the art of being a therapist, I believe really involves understanding systems and stuff that impacts our field, but that is outside of our everyday work with clients or supervisees or consultees.
And this is the stuff inundating our news too, and if you think that the news does not impact clinical work, I encourage you to think again.
Morgen V.: Yes. I encourage you to grab that wheel that Ashley mentioned earlier about power, privilege, and oppression. What was it called again?
Ashley C.: I, that's what I call it, the wheel of power and privilege.
Okay.
Morgen V.: Is that what you call it? I think so, yeah. So yeah, if you feel like the news doesn't impact you, if you feel, if you feel like therapy is not political, really strongly encourage you to look at that wheel. Strongly encourage you to just maybe talk to a few colleagues outside of your typical group to s- to find out about how therapy is political and how all of these things intersect with our life.
So with that, thank you so much for joining us on The Art of Being a Therapist. Give us a like, a follow, a subscribe, and share the podcast with a friend. Until next time, take care of yourselves and each other. Bye. Bye.
