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Episode Description
What does it take to be a good addiction counselor? And what changes when you become the one leading the team?
Ashley Charbonneau and Morgen Villegas sit down with Kelsi, an LPC and LAC with 11+ years in community mental health. She shares how she found her way to addiction work, why caffeine and vaping deserve a closer look, and what she’s learning in her new role as a supervisor.
They get honest about human-first supervision, showing up for clients while grieving, and working inside a broken system. Kelsi also talks about balancing her career with over a decade of volunteer leadership in Alpha Phi.
Burnout and joy can live in the same week. Sometimes in the same session.
GUEST BIO:
Kelsi Klug has more than 11 years in Colorado community mental health. She has worked with kids, families, justice-involved youth, and adults facing co-occurring mental health and substance use disorders. Today she is a Clinical Supervisor at Sage Ridge Supportive Residential Community with AllHealth Network. Kelsi believes strong relationships are where real change starts. Off the clock, she’s home with her husband, their dogs Rylie and Poppy, and their cat, Tini. She also volunteers with Alpha Phi, the sorority where she first met Ashley.
CHAPTERS
[0:00] Intro & Content Warning
[2:32] Meet Kelsi
[3:14] Path to Addiction Counseling
[5:11] Co-Occurring Addictions & Normalized Substances
[6:36] Volunteering & Alpha Phi
[10:44] Self-Care & What Anchors You
[11:48] The Power of Good Supervision
[15:55] Navigating a Broken System
[20:22] Alpha Phi, Judgment & Finding Your People
[23:08] Support Systems & Self-Care Practices
Transcript
Morgen V.: Before we get into today's episode, we want to acknowledge that we recorded this conversation back in June 2026. Since we recorded, the Lindsay Clancy trial has dominated headlines, and it's impossible not to connect it to what we talk about in this episode. The mental health system, the same system our guest Kelsi works inside of every single day, is the same system that so often fails people long before a crisis reaches its breaking point.
When we talk about holding two truths at once, we have to hold this one. A person can be responsible for a horrific act, and that act can also be the end result of a system that didn't intervene when it should have. But here's the other truth, there are providers inside the same system who are doing the work.
Kelsi is one of them. She talks about pushing back, about advocating, and she's not alone. There are good ethical providers who are trying to transcend a broken system and still deliver humane care to the people in front of them. And we wanna be honest, there are also providers who aren't doing that work.
There are people who burn out, check out, who do harm, who uphold the very systems that are failing people. This conversation is about what it's like to work inside of that system that is simultaneously life-saving and fundamentally broken, and the people who choose to stay in it anyway. So let's get into it.
Here's our conversation with Kelsi Welcome back to The Art of Being a Therapist. I'm one of your hosts, Morgan, and I'm here with Ashley, my co-host. We are here today to talk about the space between training and real life, the human side of therapy, the work, the people, the stories, and the questions that don't always have easy answers.
Ashley C.: And today, we welcome Kelsi. Kelsi is a licensed professional counselor and licensed addiction counselor. She has spent over 11 years in community mental health, and now holds a supervisor role that I'm so excited to hear more about. And a bit of a fun fact, Kelsi and I met not in the mental health field, but as advisors for Alpha Phi.
She volunteered at a school in Colorado for a long time, as did I at a different school. I worked my way up into a regional role, and now Kelsi actually holds that role. And I mention this because I think it's so interesting that so many of us help others in different ways outside of our formal careers.
And Kelsi, you help others in a big way. And we're gonna get to that a little bit later, but I'd love to start with what made you want to be a therapist?
Meet Kelsi
Kelsi K.: Thank you guys for having me. That's always a heavy question, right? Everyone asks you, "Why'd you choose this?" I can definitely say I don't know a human being alive on this planet that hasn't been affected by substance abuse, mental health or suicide in some way, shape or form.
And growing up, seeing my family impacted by two out of those three, I can truly say I felt set up that I wanted to go towards this work. And obviously, being in it is very different than when you're aspiring to become a therapist. Being in it means you gotta work on your stuff. So I came into it knowing that I had job permanence, for sure.
Path to Addiction Counseling
Kelsi K.: And did you always know you wanted to go into addiction work specifically? N- no. It was actually very funny. I had a family member who was struggling with an addiction look at me and tell me, "You won't be a good substance abuse therapist because you've never struggled with addiction." I was, like, maybe 20 and I was like, "Okay, but-" I don't know if that's true.
And so I was discouraged at first. I started my career at what was then the Mental Health Center of Denver. I realized quickly how much I needed education in substance abuse. I was thrown into a very high acuity caseload, and I saw a lot of people struggle, and that's when I decided to pursue getting a license in addictions counseling, and I've used it ever since in every role.
So it was worth it. I'd love to hear you speak a little bit more to what you said about getting feedback. You can't be a good addiction counselor unless you've experienced addiction. Yeah. What are your thoughts on what makes a good addiction counselor specifically, and do you share that belief today? Oh, absolutely not.
I don't share that belief at all. And I think it was more of a passing comment from somebody in the thick of it. A lot of people in the field are in recovery, so I do also understand where they were coming from. I don't think you need to have recovered from an addiction to understand addiction, right?
I think every person alive at one point will struggle with something, and whether it's social media, food, pornography, you name it, a lot of people struggle with addictions that are just not named, right? Just because it's not a substance. So if you can understand what it's like, I think that is all that matters.
Co-Occurring Addictions & Normalized Substances
Kelsi K.: I don't believe you have to struggle with something to understand it personally. I'm wondering with your clients, is it usually substances and something else? Is it usually substances or something else? Can you speak to that piece a little bit, like what you're seeing today? Yeah. I definitely see a lot of co-occurring pieces as far as different addictions.
That also goes for my private practice clients as well. I can say across the board, yeah, I don't really meet very many people that just struggle with just one thing. Especially going into recovery, a lot of people do a lot of replacement addictions. Food is probably one of the biggest addictions out there that we don't talk about, right?
That's not even feeding into the eating disorder realm, which also has addictive qualities to it. So it's very easy to substitute addictions, but even in the thick of it, I also see other people, they struggle with poly-substance abuse or gambling is a heavy one I also see. So totally dependent on the individual, but I've seen a mix.
And you didn't say it, but I'll say it as I drink my coffee. Oh, for sure. Caffeine is definitely a substance so many of us are addicted to, but we've completely normalized it. A lot of people smoke and vape now, and- ... of course that's a, a heavy addiction. We have clients come in for treatment for that, but it's also so normalized as well.
Volunteering & Alpha Phi
Kelsi K.: Yeah. It's just vaping, people just hitting a vape all day every day. So yeah, it's, we normalize some stuff, which isn't always the greatest. Would you like to share a little bit more about the volunteer role, working in residential, and then the private practice? Is there any that I missed? I spent most of my career in case management.
I did a little dabble in residential, and then I just was recently promoted in March to a supervisor role at a residential center in Colorado. I've had my private practice on the side for six years. I love, I never will get rid of it. I love my clients, and it sometimes is a different clientele than community mental health.
And then, yes, on the side, I still volunteer for Alpha Phi. I've also been volunteering for 11 years. I graduated and immediately became a volunteer. I've done a lot of different roles there, from housing boards to I was a main advisor for the Colorado School of Mines, which is not the school I went to, but oversaw them for eight years.
And then I've shifted now into a regional role where I oversee three different schools, three different Alpha Phi chapters, to be specific. And so that is what I do on my very little amount of spare time. Alpha Phi has always been- A guiding light, if you will. Comes with its stressors, but can also be some self-care every now and again.
So yes, I wear a few different hats. And I think what's interesting to me is even in the addiction world, I'm a licensed addiction counselor as well, we think of addiction as completely separate than mental health. I think the fields, the addiction field and the mental health field, still looks at addiction in silo.
And we look at private practice in silo. We look at- ... volunteer roles in silo. I'll speak for myself, but it's been very hard to really do all my own parts work related to that. I tried to keep my Alpha Phi world very separate. I tried to keep my addiction counselor role very separate than my social work role, and it took me years- to really understand that there is no separateness. Everything that I'm passionate about more generally relates to pass- each, every other passion in my life in some way, shape, or form. Even in Alpha Phi, we don't have to get, super deep into this, Kelsi, but we have seen some crises. Like- ... life and death situations.
Yes. We have seen aggression. We've seen dangerous substance abuse. We've seen very scary emergent situations. We've had 1:00 AM phone calls. On the more happy side of things, we've also seen these young women grow into healthy young adults, and I think that's really exciting. And I've told a couple of my colleagues, I learned how to run a business and build a private practice and market and network from Alpha Phi.
I was there for probably 12 years as well. So how do you manage all of this? There's been moments that I've had to step away. So when I was the chapter advisor for Colorado School of Mines, it-- I did so much. I overdid it. I learned I had to step away in that situation. It was necessary for my mental health, my physical health.
I just was doing too much. I've learned in the role I have now, I can balance. Luckily, I have good people running my chapters, and so I can rely on them. But I won't lie and say there aren't days that my plate feels very full and I have to do self-care in other ways. Just finding things I love and enjoy to do on the side.
Self-Care & What Anchors You
Morgen V.: I imagine with the different roles and being a therapist and now a supervisor, there's a lot of space holding for people, and you're seeing clients in private practice. So I'm curious, like what anchors you? What helps you to maintain ethical practice, good therapy? What do you recommend? How do you do that?
Kelsi K.: I think honestly, throughout my life, it's evolving, right? Things that used to work back then don't work now. It's really about finding things I enjoy. It's about also utilizing your PTO as much as you can. That's very crucial in my mind. There are just times we need to be away from the role. Having supportive partners or friends in your life helps.
I would also say having supervisors change everything. I've been at my current company for five years. I can truly tell you I would've left five years ago if I didn't have the team and the supervisors that I have now. I've been very fortunate. Bad supervision is also a reason people leave this field pretty frequently.
The Power of Good Supervision
Kelsi K.: I'm very lucky. What does that look like for you now as a supervisor? I think good supervision has been a theme for some of the podcast. Speaking to someone who supervises, curious to hear from you and your perspective. I'm obviously new at the role, but I feel like I get to embody a lot of the wonderful supervisors I've had, and it's really finding a balance between, "Hey, you're a human.
I'm here to support you as a human." Yes, we have administrative things that we do have to hit on, and yes, we wanna do best by your clients and talk about them, but my biggest goal is always just acknowledging them as a human being first because if they're not taken care of, then they're not gonna show up for clients.
I just can say that from my own personal experience that when I needed to take care of myself, I wasn't showing up. Life happens. As we're therapists, death happens and major life moments happen, and so if we don't have a job that supports us through that, then what the hell is the point? I love that. That just seems really supportive.
Morgen V.: It sounds like that's what you experienced in the company that you're in right now, also embodying that with your supervisees. So that's really the key and the crux of what I'm getting at. Good therapy is good supervision, right? And if we have human first supervision, that means, oh, I have a possibility of being a good therapist and doing good therapy.
Kelsi K.: I'm curious to hear anecdotes or stories or recommendations that you might have for people in this field, either as supervisors or supervisees when they're thinking about what does good therapy mean for them Oh, I can tell you a couple of stories for me when I had supervisors show up for me that made the world of difference.
And so the biggest one I'll always think of is a former supervisor of mine that now is the VP of clinical services. But back in the day when I first started at this current job, I lost a client to suicide. It was very shocking, very out of the blue, didn't see that coming. And I was devastated- Yeah
needless to say. It really threw me. It threw my career for a while, but I had a supervisor who, A, met with me to tell me the news, but then this other supervisor showed up at my doorstep, and she had a take care of yourself kit that she got me, but then she literally just held me as I cried. Just knowing that I was not okay, and I did have to take a day or so off after that.
Was that enough time? Absolutely not. But that's just an example of someone that just showed up human to human knowing that this impacted me as a person, but as a professional in the field. I've lost my mom, and I've had supervisors show up for me in ways I couldn't imagine. I was diagnosed with MS while working in this job, so this job has seen the best and the worst of me.
I have this team of supervisors that will check in on me. They will just ask how I'm feeling, what I need. They accommodated my schedule for quite some time, and that's where I think I learned that's what supervision should look like. And even prior to All Health, I can truly say I had an amazing intern supervisor.
Even though she's not my supervisor anymore, she has stayed in my life as an amazing figure. She very similarly just taught me that it's showing up as a human. I think that's what makes a good therapist, and I think that's what makes a good s- supervisor. When we don't embody the characteristics of venture capitalism in corporate America, that's when we have good supervision and good therapists.
When we remember that we're human beings and not just machines, that's when we provide good therapy. I've also had horrible supervisors. I've had horrible supervision too, which also put a lot into perspective. Thank you for sharing all that, and I love that you said seemingly something so simple but that not a lot of us do asking our supervisees, "How are you feeling?"
Navigating a Broken System
Kelsi K.: And I try to start all of my supervision sessions and consultations with that question. You speak very highly of your team in community mental health, and I think there's a lot of folks who have really enjoyed their career in community mental health and have had a really positive experience. So I'm curious more systemically, how have you built a sustainable practice in a system?
again, an evolving question. It's not easy because a lot of the times I sit being angry at the broken system. It's just the mental health system in a whole, right? Insurance, we sprinkle that in, sprinkle in the legal system, and networking and having so many different people that we have to collaborate with in community mental health.
I do spend a lot of time being angry, but I think the biggest piece is, at least with my clients, is acknowledging the brokenness of the system, right? Really having those conversations of we're gonna do the best we can to navigate these. For me personally, how I deal with that anger is, it's the micro joys we find in our job.
Sometimes it's also really pushing for change when it can be possible. Obviously, there are systems that are so much larger than we can even imagine that we can't always impact change. I'm not a social worker, but I definitely wanna say there's an advocate in me, for sure. So I'm not really afraid to push back on certain things.
But yeah, it's with some gritted teeth, for sure, that I do navigate these systems. You're naming the micro and the macro. So the micro is the clinical work, and then the macro is when we have these systemic limitations, such as referring someone out, wraparound care, or lack of communication with different other agencies, and then this thing isn't available or this financial piece is not in place.
And so I'm hearing, in spite of that, you're finding joy. You're gritting your teeth and finding joy, so more than one thing is true as you're doing the work. Yeah, gotta love the dialectics, right? Got them. Oh, boy. I did not mean to do that. I love it. I used to chuckle at DBT, kinda roll my eyes.
No offense, DBT. But I, now that I'm more seasoned and farther into my career, I'm like, wow, this is it. the dialectics. This is it every day. And it's also changing every but to and, right? That is always the one thing I used to roll my eyes at, but now I'm like, "And." So I have to take a pause and be like, "No, we're not gonna say but."
So yes, dialectics, there's a lot of things as therapists we have to laugh at. But it's true. True things can be true at once, so frustrating as hell. 'Cause sometimes it's not even the client work, right? It's the systems that intersect into that. Yes, 100%. And so I think you're speaking into that and just how you maintain, again, a perspective of still being able to hold space for the client, of still providing good therapy.
In spite of those systems, there's still that pocket that you're able to provide and then also guide clinicians that you're supervising. That's the best I can. A really powerful thing. It's a really powerful thing if you think about it. I just imagine us holding up all these systems and just figuring out- Yeah, and sometimes, I won't lie, there are times that I even have to just shake my head and just acknowledge how crappy it is for the client and just be like- I'm sorry that these are the way things are, right?
Especially right now navigating the Medicaid system. That is another headache in and of itself right now. We're just sitting with clients just being like, "I hate this. I hate this for you. I hate this whole thing." So yes, just sometimes being present is all we can do. Not necessarily, over-aligning with the client, but saying, "I'm here with you.
My experience- ... is not the same as yours because in this situation you're the client and I'm the professional, but we are here together, and even if I can't fix it, I'm here." Exactly. And speaking of holding two truths at once, I think that is one of the biggest parts of working in this field, is being able to hold the line of, "I love this work and I'm making a difference," and it's a lot on any given day.
Alpha Phi, Judgment & Finding Your People
Kelsi K.: Yeah. And how do I not get pushed over the edge? And I think also something that stood out to me that you said was knowing who to go to for which pieces of support that you need. It's taken me seven or eight or nine years to figure out that piece too. And I think the Alpha Phi piece too is so interesting because there's a lot of people that don't understand what you and I did, what I did and what you continue to do, Kelsi.
It's more than just a sorority. It's more than just helping guide college girls through this phase of life. And to find people who understand that has been rare. Even therapists, I feel like- ... who you would hope understand wanting to help other people in a different way, have been very judgmental and dismissive of that part of my life, and it's been a challenge for me to continue to have confidence.
I did this for over a decade- Yeah ... and it shaped who I am today, and I'm not gonna let anyone shame me for that. Absolutely. I will say I was fortunate. I've been with Heather for many years. Best therapists have therapists is one of my favorite and strongest beliefs. I've been with Heather for many years, and so I'm very grateful that when I take her down the Greek life rabbit hole, she goes with me, even if she has no idea- what I'm even talking about. But you're right, there are definitely a lot of people that are judgmental, especially about the Greek system, understandably but just people that don't fully understand what it is. I wore my mental health hat a lot with those women- Yeah ... a lot of different times. A lot of really stressed out college kids, a lot of experimentation, unfortunately a lot of sexual assaults that I saw over my time being an advisor.
It's not even just that. It's also connecting with these wonderful women. And so I'm like, it's a bond. It's the community. And so explaining that, hey, this is one of the most stressful parts of my life, but also one of the most rewarding- People look at you with that confused face. They're just like, "Why are you doing this?"
'Cause you love it. And then same with therapy. Why do you do this job? I love it. I really do. And it is a very tough job. Yeah. I think that's just such an incredible comparison, right? The volunteering, you're not technically in a therapist role, but you have a therapist kind of lens that you look at things through, right?
Morgen V.: And you advocate for people, and you figure things out through that lens, and then you are a therapist, right? And so both have their shadow and light sides, and there's also this persistence that you hold with both, and therefore naming both, being able to be in therapy, being able to conceptualize both has really helped you in the process.
Support Systems & Self-Care Practices
Kelsi K.: Yeah. And you've also... You named seeking support in other avenues. What other pockets of space do you seek for your support as a professional? My agency does have consultation for all different, like EMDR. We have actually a really awesome consultation for helping helpers, which I think is genius, run by the most incredible woman.
We have different consults that I'm a part of. I run a consult, and then I have a lot of supervision. Within my agency, I am pretty solid on that. And with outside, I have definitely a lot of peers, people I reach out to, a professional supervisor that I utilize. So definitely just trying to make sure, am I doing the right things?
Am I ethical? How am I showing up? Is there transference, counter-transference, things like that. Definitely wanna just make sure you're doing best by the client Yeah, thank you for naming all of those pieces. And you do craft projects? So I actually have a, funny enough, I have an Etsy store. I do custom champagne bottles and custom tumblers.
Nice. I sell-- They're, the tumblers are NFL. I also added in some NHL. I've done a couple of those. I bling like crazy, and so that has been my fun little outlet. It's just a fun little thing that actually really gets me out of my head. I feel like in this job, we have to have moments that we're just out of our head and we're not stressing, we're not thinking, we're not disassociating completely.
Similar to coloring, it's just something that I can do, and I've gotten really fast at it over the years. But I'm a crafter through and through, but the blinging thing has in the last couple of years. Yeah. And I love that you name the difference between being in your head, getting out of your head, some distraction versus full dissociation.
Morgen V.: I think it speaks to how much work I'm assuming you've done around what does healthy look like for me, and how do I stay present without overthinking? How do I challenge my overthinking without going into full-blown doom scrolling or bed rotting? So I appreciate that you named that. And we have those moments, too.
Kelsi K.: Don't get me wrong. But one thing that I'll just interject fast is everyone, when they talk about self-care, it's kind of a trigger word. But I just rephrase it to, what are you doing for joy? Everyone in grad school is just like, "Self-care, go to the gym." And I was like, "I don't wanna go to the dang gym."
It wasn't until my 30s that I learned about Pilates, and that changed everything for me for moving my body. I think it is pretty vital that you find ways to move your body, especially because we have a very sedentary job. Kelsi, thank you so much. It has been really amazing and inspiring to talk with you today.
Morgen V.: And thank you to our listeners. At its heart, being a therapist is both a science and an art, and it asks us to stay curious, keep learning, and trust the process. Thank you for listening to The Art of Being a Therapist.
